Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

Last post 12-19-2008 11:38 AM by the iceman. 21 replies.
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  • 12-17-2008 4:20 PM

    Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    Obama's birth certificate: Final chapter

    By Amy Hollyfield
    Published on Friday, June 27th, 2008 at 05:21 p.m.


    SUMMARY: Since we published Obama's birth certificate, questions about its authenticity have been frequent and fierce. After reviewing the evidence, we're confident in our rulings.

    It started as a whisper, a trickle of nagging doubt.

    “As a concerned citizen, I’m wondering if there isn’t something fishy going on with the Obama certificate.”

    “I have serious doubts about the purported 'birth certificate’ you were sent.”

    “Something doesn’t smell right.”

    Soon, e-mails and blog posts were flying. As the pace quickened, the tone sharpened.

    “You should be apologizing ... for your misinformation regarding BO bogus birth certificate, that you claimed was genuine!”

    At full throttle, the accusations are explosive and unrelenting, the writers emboldened by the anonymity and reach of the Internet.

    And you can’t help but ask: How do you prove something to people who come to the facts believing, out of fear or hatred or maybe just partisanship, that they’re being tricked?

    • • •

    Sen. Barack Obama’s birth certificate is a document PolitiFact.com had sought for months. Countless chain e-mails, seeking to paint him as a secret Muslim, speculated that his full name included Muhammed (or Mohammed). Some said he is not an American citizen.

    Birth Certificate

    As a fact-checking news Web site, we went to extensive lengths to sort out the truth. We got a copy of his 1992 marriage certificate from the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics. His driver’s license record from the Illinois Secretary of State’s office. His registration and disciplinary record with the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois. Not to mention all of his property records.

    Not one of these documents shows a Muhammed (or Mohammed) in Obama's name. They all read "Barack H. Obama" or "Barack Hussein Obama."

    The ultimate document we sought was Obama’s birth certificate. Unlike the other documents, Hawaii birth certificates aren’t public record. Only family members can request copies, so when the campaign declined to give us one, we were stalled.

    On June 13, 2008, Obama’s campaign finally released a copy, while launching a fact-check Web site of its own, Fightthesmears.com. The site is a direct response to allegations about Obama that won’t go away: He’s Muslim. He took the oath of office on a Koran. He refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance. PolitiFact has researched all of these accusations and none of them are true.

    When the birth certificate arrived from the Obama campaign it confirmed his name as the other documents already showed it. Still, we took an extra step: We e-mailed it to the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records, to ask if it was real.

    “It’s a valid Hawaii state birth certificate,” spokesman Janice Okubo told us.

    Then the firestorm started.

    • Where is the embossed seal and the registrar’s signature?

    • Comparing it to other Hawaii birth certificates, the color shade is different.

    • Isn’t the date stamp bleeding through the back of the document “June 2007?” (Odd since it was supposedly released in June 2008.)

    • There’s no crease from being folded and mailed.

    • It’s clearly Photoshopped and a wholesale fraud.

    • • •

    At PolitiFact.com, we’re all about original sources. We don’t take anyone at their word or take the reporting of other media organizations as proof. We go to the heart of the story, the source of the truth — original, corroborating documents.

    When the official documents were questioned, we went looking for more answers. We circled back to the Department of Health, had a newsroom colleague bring in her own Hawaii birth certificate to see if it looks the same (it’s identical). But every answer triggered more questions.

    And soon enough, after going to every length possible to confirm the birth certificate’s authenticity, you start asking, what is reasonable here?

    Because if this document is forged, then they all are.

    If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State’s office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies.

    Sounds like a Vince Flynn novel.

    • • •

    Peter Goelz knows a little something about conspiracy theorists.

    He was managing director of the National Transportation Safety Board in 1996 when TWA Flight 800 crashed off Long Island, killing 230 people. While the NTSB’s investigation found no evidence of sabotage or terrorism, the Internet was stocked with insistent accusations.

    “We were right at the beginning of this Internet lunacy,” Goelz said in an interview with PolitiFact. “And there were a variety of crackpot Web sites and Web commentators that generated all sorts of rumors. The principle one was that TWA in fact was shot down by an errant Navy missile in ... a live-fire exercise off the Hamptons.”

    Nine miles off Long Island, in the middle of summer. And then a full-scale coverup by the Navy and all the sailors involved.

    “I am sure that we spent another $10-million, perhaps $20-million, out of a $50-million investigation, to just knock down and put to bed these kinds of rumors, these insidious rumors,” Goelz said. “We felt like we had to answer every question because it was such a public and dreadful and confounding event.”

    Goelz, who is now a communications consultant in Washington, D.C., says the Internet has given a platform to anyone to say anything. And a way to find others who want to hear it.

    “Online, they can be almost anything,” he said. “They can be the crusading investigators that they always wanted to be.”

    • • •

    The Hawaii Department of Health receives about a dozen e-mail inquiries a day about Obama’s birth certificate, spokesman Okubo said.

    “I guess the big issue that’s being raised is the lack of an embossed seal and a signature,” Okubo said, pointing out that in Hawaii, both those things are on the back of the document. “Because they scanned the front … you wouldn’t see those things.”

    Okubo says she got a copy of her own birth certificate last year and it is identical to the Obama one we received.

    And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? “When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.”

    Still, she acknowledges: “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents.”

    • • •

    And there’s the rub. It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible.

    But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over.

    There is not one shred of evidence to disprove PolitiFact’s conclusion that the candidate’s name is Barack Hussein Obama, or to support allegations that the birth certificate he released isn’t authentic.

    And that’s true no matter how many people cling to some hint of doubt and use the Internet to fuel their innate sense of distrust.

     

  • 12-17-2008 4:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

  • 12-17-2008 4:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    now see how the site magoo uses spins things such as the hawaii state law that bars anyone who is essentially not a family member from obtaining birth certificates:

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=79174

  • 12-17-2008 4:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

  • 12-17-2008 5:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    hey buddy, just a question, why is his fathers race african, they were black, coloured, or negro in 61?? just splitting a hair nobody can seem to answer

  • 12-17-2008 8:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    Because he's from Africa?????  But my question is, where is the mothers and fathers signatures on this.  I have my birth certificate copy which is embossed with a seal and both my mother and father had to sign.

  • 12-17-2008 8:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    I wonder if this thread is a record for the creator also having the most consective posts before somebody else joins.

  • 12-17-2008 9:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

     Humm ... well ... it is still just a copy.

  • 12-18-2008 12:59 AM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    ssskrzypek:

    Because he's from Africa?????  But my question is, where is the mothers and fathers signatures on this.  I have my birth certificate copy which is embossed with a seal and both my mother and father had to sign.

    sorry, they weren't called africans then they were negros or coloureds, this was 61, you remember the years of hair straightener to fit in & look like white folk, separate entrances, back of the bus and all that $hit.

  • 12-18-2008 1:32 AM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    I don't know about you Geronimo but, in my early teens in the late 60's early seventies the black dudes I knew were wearing big afros and insisted on being called Afro-americans.

     

    the iceman:

    ssskrzypek:

    Because he's from Africa?????  But my question is, where is the mothers and fathers signatures on this.  I have my birth certificate copy which is embossed with a seal and both my mother and father had to sign.

    sorry, they weren't called africans then they were negros or coloureds, this was 61, you remember the years of hair straightener to fit in & look like white folk, separate entrances, back of the bus and all that $hit.

  • 12-18-2008 3:08 AM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    Seti03:

    I don't know about you Geronimo but, in my early teens in the late 60's early seventies the black dudes I knew were wearing big afros and insisted on being called Afro-americans.

     

    the iceman:

    ssskrzypek:

    Because he's from Africa?????  But my question is, where is the mothers and fathers signatures on this.  I have my birth certificate copy which is embossed with a seal and both my mother and father had to sign.

    sorry, they weren't called africans then they were negros or coloureds, this was 61, you remember the years of hair straightener to fit in & look like white folk, separate entrances, back of the bus and all that $hit.

    what a delightfully uninformed reply, what the HELL does the late 60's have to do with 1961? is math as well as rational thought process being effected by your tin foil hat??

  • 12-18-2008 9:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    If we took some certain people back to 1961 in a working time machine and let them witness the birth with their own eyes, they'd begin to tell us "that proves nothing! It could have been a fake vagina!"

  • 12-18-2008 10:52 AM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    exactly. the proof is all there for those who can see it. some will never be satisfied because they are still crying over november 4th. get over it and stop being sore losers.

    the reason it says african is because obama's father was from africa. negro implied US citizenship, which obama SR did not have. thus he could not be called a negro, but instead African.

    and i wonder if rajx's is trying for a record for most useless addition to a thread

    lastly, all of your questions about legitimacy can be found in the posts at the top. so stop questioning before you read everything. the answers to your questions are all there for you, should you choose to see them.

  • 12-18-2008 11:12 AM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

     Back in the 50s and 60s not all blacks were called negros and colored. People who had passports from other nations like Africa were called African.

    Also not all states require the parents signature on the birth certificate, I was born in NYC and there was no signatures on my birth cert.

    These conspiracy people really need to get some Prozac or something, they are sounding more and more like the people in the mental wards, I mean no offense to the people who are in those hospitals.

    Mr Magoo you really have to read other opinions to balance all the material you have been reading and posting, every group has its own agenda and yours is no different.

  • 12-18-2008 12:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    uhhh just when did africa become a nation???? he had a kenyan passport BTW africa doesnt issue passports

  • 12-18-2008 12:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    iceman, there is no amount of proof that could satisfy you. if you'd like to continue to sound like the 50%+ of this nation that is retarded, knock yourself out.

  • 12-18-2008 12:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    what, are you following me from post to post?? ;-)

  • 12-18-2008 4:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    The original document is the only proof I need.  The rest of the crap you refer to is just window dressing.  Why won't he show it?

    Jewdakris:

    iceman, there is no amount of proof that could satisfy you. if you'd like to continue to sound like the 50%+ of this nation that is retarded, knock yourself out.

     
  • 12-18-2008 4:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    Mr. Magoo:
    The original document is the only proof I need.

    What steps have you taken to take a look at it? Have you bought your ticket to Hawaii yet?

  • 12-18-2008 9:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Lets question obama's legitimacy some more!

    Jewdakris:

    iceman, there is no amount of proof that could satisfy you. if you'd like to continue to sound like the 50%+ of this nation that is retarded, knock yourself out.

    my friend, it is not the proof that is the issue, just the way it has been presented. Africa did not or does not ISSUE PASSPORTS, and in 61 they were negros or coloureds, not african. if anything he could have put british, as kenya was still part of the commonwealth then. Everyone is looking at this with rose coloured glasses, both sides!! it is a glaring error.

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