Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

Last post 11-03-2009 9:12 PM by Barbara Jones. 29 replies.
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  • 10-30-2009 1:16 PM

    Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

     

    Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

     

    Health authorities flagrantly disregarding refusal of consent in pursuit of mass vaccination mandate

    Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent 291009top2

    Paul Joseph Watson
    Prison Planet.com
    Thursday, October 29, 2009

    A boy in Ohio has received the swine flu vaccine despite the fact that his mother clearly refused consent for her child to be inoculated, in another example of how health authorities are blatantly disregarding the wishes of parents in the pursuit of a mass vaccination mandate.

    “Kim Lutheran works as a nurse and says her son, Matthew, has had bad reactions to medicine. So, she says she signed for “no consent” on a vaccination form and then circled her intentions with a black marker to make things clear to the boy’s public school in the Toledo suburb of Oregon,” reports the Associated Press.

    Despite her clear refusal to give consent, the boy was given the H1N1 shot on Monday. Lutheran is now demanding that the local health department be held accountable.

    The mother had followed the correct procedure in filling in the form because parents were still required to return it even if they were notifying the school of their refusal to give consent. The fact that she so clearly indicated that her son was not to receive the vaccine suggests that health authorities flagrantly ignored her request and inoculated the boy anyway.

    This is not the first time that a child has received the swine flu shot against their wishes of their parents and it’s unlikely to be the last.

    A 7-year-old boy in Montgomery County was given the nasal spray version of the H1N1 vaccine last week despite his father’s objections that his son should be exempted because of underlying health problems.

    Matthew Angel called the nurses’ station at Camargo Elementary School to ask why his son Jacob Wages was given the vaccine. They told him they had mistaken the boy with another child. An investigation is currently underway to discover exactly what happened.

    “A little cold can lead to a big thing for him, if he runs a temperature it’s not a hundred point one, it’s a hundred and five,” said Angel, who fears his son’s health is now at risk.

    Angel has every right to worry – the nasal spray version of the H1N1 vaccine contains live swine flu virus and doctors and hospitals are expressing concern that the FluMist vaccine could endanger people, with children the most vulnerable. With no less than 60 per cent of the U.S. population immunodeficient in one way or another, the nasal spray could actually make the swine flu pandemic worse, health experts have warned. A number of hospitals across the country have refused to administer the spray form of the vaccine because of these concerns.

    Watch a clip below.

  • 10-31-2009 8:32 AM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    Mr. Magoo, I wouldn't have this for one minute.  The thought of that nasal spray is more than what I can take.  That is a live virus and I'm not willing to take the chance.  My little ones will not be getting the H1N1 shot and I don't care what anyone says.  We have two in school and 4 that aren't old enough to go to school yet and we have made it known that we want nothing to do with the vaccine.  If just by chance there's even talk of this at the school my daughter-in-law and son are going to take the kids out of school and from that point on they will be home-schooled.  The boys love their friends at school but if it comes down to it then they can see their friends in the evening or on week-ends.  My neighbor said the same thing.  She will pull her daughter out of school.  We are both certified herbalists and we have our own remedies and they are working so far. No one in my family will be getting the shot or the nasal spray.  We've all weighed our options and decided against it.

  • 10-31-2009 9:12 AM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    An informed decision is always best.  We were very selective on what vaccinations our children received after they were born.  Our doctor was not happy, but our children are ours and we know what is best for them.  We have home schooled our children from the beginning, and they have pleanty of friends.  Good luck.

    GOLDIEC:

    Mr. Magoo, I wouldn't have this for one minute.  The thought of that nasal spray is more than what I can take.  That is a live virus and I'm not willing to take the chance.  My little ones will not be getting the H1N1 shot and I don't care what anyone says.  We have two in school and 4 that aren't old enough to go to school yet and we have made it known that we want nothing to do with the vaccine.  If just by chance there's even talk of this at the school my daughter-in-law and son are going to take the kids out of school and from that point on they will be home-schooled.  The boys love their friends at school but if it comes down to it then they can see their friends in the evening or on week-ends.  My neighbor said the same thing.  She will pull her daughter out of school.  We are both certified herbalists and we have our own remedies and they are working so far. No one in my family will be getting the shot or the nasal spray.  We've all weighed our options and decided against it.

     
  • 10-31-2009 11:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    Mr. Magoo:
    An informed decision is always best.  We were very selective on what vaccinations our children received after they were born.  Our doctor was not happy, but our children are ours and we know what is best for them.  We have home schooled our children from the beginning, and they have pleanty of friends.  Good luck.

    GOLDIEC:

    Mr. Magoo, I wouldn't have this for one minute.  The thought of that nasal spray is more than what I can take.  That is a live virus and I'm not willing to take the chance.  My little ones will not be getting the H1N1 shot and I don't care what anyone says.  We have two in school and 4 that aren't old enough to go to school yet and we have made it known that we want nothing to do with the vaccine.  If just by chance there's even talk of this at the school my daughter-in-law and son are going to take the kids out of school and from that point on they will be home-schooled.  The boys love their friends at school but if it comes down to it then they can see their friends in the evening or on week-ends.  My neighbor said the same thing.  She will pull her daughter out of school.  We are both certified herbalists and we have our own remedies and they are working so far. No one in my family will be getting the shot or the nasal spray.  We've all weighed our options and decided against it.

     
    Mr. Magoo, your children are very fortunate to have you and your wife to look out for them.
  • 10-31-2009 12:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    As far as I understand the H1N1, it mainly gets the children.  The older people should be okay.  They have lived through it already.

  • 10-31-2009 12:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    coast:
    Coast, I have heard this before about older people already being exposed to the H1N1.  I wonder when the H1N1 was here before?

    As far as I understand the H1N1, it mainly gets the children.  The older people should be okay.  They have lived through it already.

  • 10-31-2009 2:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    Goldiec - before you agree with these goofy stories that Magoo posts, make note of where they originate.  Prison Planet.com, etc.  His sites are even more outrageous than the FOX news (news - haha) that surveybob swears by. 

  • 10-31-2009 2:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    Yah, like the MSM would ever report anything incorrectly.

    KELLYBROWN9:

    Goldiec - before you agree with these goofy stories that Magoo posts, make note of where they originate.  Prison Planet.com, etc.  His sites are even more outrageous than the FOX news (news - haha) that surveybob swears by. 

     
  • 10-31-2009 3:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    I'm sure occassionaly they do report something incorrectly.  But PrisonPlanet?  Give me a break.  You can find a better source than that. 

  • 10-31-2009 4:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    KELLYBROWN9:

    Goldiec - before you agree with these goofy stories that Magoo posts, make note of where they originate.  Prison Planet.com, etc.  His sites are even more outrageous than the FOX news (news - haha) that surveybob swears by. 

    Kellybrown9, I watch Fox8 news everyday and they are pretty reliable at least here in Cleveland they are.  They only report the facts that I know of.  I'm really not familiar with Prison Planet but I believe Mr. Magoo's best quality is that he gets people thinking.  Especially me and I do appreciate that.  Once I start thinking about a subject then I start researching it in a lot of different areas. 
  • 10-31-2009 5:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    Goldiec - I am not referring to your local Fox news broadcast.  The local Fox we have here also does a fine job of reporting the news. 

    I am referring to the cable FOX network and their Becks, Hannitys and other skit performers as well as radio comedians like Limbaugh. 

  • 10-31-2009 5:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

      Fox News lies again

     

    2009 June 25
    by Chris

    The lies of Fox News become more and more brazen, as more and more sheep blindly

     accept their faux reporting as fact.

    Today’s big lie? South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford, who recently admitted to an affair,

     is a Republican. Unless, of course, you watch Fox News, in which case Republicans can do

     no wrong and Mark Sanford is a Democrat. See for yourself.

     

    Just a thought Goldiec, but this might be something worth researching also, 

    consider it the conspiracy against Fox News.

    Lot's and lot's of these stories on the net,  one lie after another exposed.

    Of course this is on the cable stuff like Kellybrowns was talking about, but that some

     people do swear by. 
     

  • 10-31-2009 6:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    ALEX JONES EXPOSED

    blue-sep.jpg

     blue-sep.jpg

    This page is the end result of MANY emails I have received over the last 2 years or so about Alex Jones and "Infowars.com & prisonplanet.com." Alex Jones has been proven by many Christian researchers out there to be a Roman Catholic Jesuit Coadjutor. Whenever I get an email about Jones I send the following (below) to the person emailing me and more often than not they all agree Alex Jones is helping the Roman Catholic church create fear in the eyes of many to scare people back into their church. The molestation scandals, war crimes, and countless other documented criminal acts performed by the Vatican have caused their pews to empty much more lately.

    Alex Jones is a Jesuit Coadjutor. He preaches FEAR to keep the people clamoring to Roman churches and even their politicians for help. He also preaches the government is very evil to give people a false sense of security thinking "someone" is out there fighting for them. Big government can be evil, yes, however he is working hand in hand with the govt to "expose" them so the people will eventually say "Enough! We want RELIGIOUS politicians!" This is the only way they will be able to move the people into accepting the "so called" religious leaders. Especially those Sunday preachers with 501C3 that now have power to lobby laws. This fear and desire to "do the right thing" is needed if they are to be able to get religious laws like SUNDAY LAWS passed. Alex Jones is working directly with the Jesuits of Rome to generate massive fear in the people so they will look to their Jesuit controlled leaders for more laws to control them or "protect" them. Do some research and you will find that Alex Jones has made MANY predictions that never came true. He acts as if his sources are 100% accurate, but upwards of 70% are mere lies and rumors. He wields these lies to keep the people interested and for some reason no one seems to care when what he says will happen never does. The only thing he is good at is instilling FEAR in the hearts of the people. This is exactly what they need to do to keep the people controlled. PLUS, the perk to all this is, Satan knows he was able to use fear to get Peter to sink in the water. Those pushing the fear are the most fearful people out there. They fear our God and what He is able to do through His people, so they pump fear out there to try and get us to look at all their smoke and mirrors like Peter did the wind and waves. They know if they can get real Christians to fear, their prayers won't be as effective.

    This man is not a Christian, even though he says he is. James 1:26 bluntly says is a man cannot bridle his tongue his religion is vain! Every time someone tries to expose the Vatican on his radio show he gets VERY violent and protects it like it's his god, and he always uses 4 letter words true Christians would never use! Jesus clearly said in Matthew 7:20, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

    Is this a sane man? Do well balanced Christians act like this? Notice the following videos...

    Keep in mind, when I was originally emailed about Alex Jones I only scanned YouTube for about 10 mins to get this much information on him. Again, if any of you want your research on this man posted where loved ones that are being conned into trusting this guy can be warned, contact this ministry and after checking it out I will post it on this page

    I've known of this man for years. Judging by his skyrocketing popularity, it has become plain this guys rise to fame has been funded by big government under orders of Rome. Truth is, Jones got his start on January 1, 2000. He used the Y2K crisis to catapult himself. He did a broadcast when the date changed  from 12/31/1999 to 01/01/09 and scared the daylights out of millions! He was telling bold faced lies about planes falling from the sky, Nuclear power plants melting down, riots and anarchy in major cites, ICBM's launching nukes, etc. NONE of it was true of course, but that launched his career. Imagine that! He got his start by telling bold faced lies! Truth is, he is still lying to generate a following. His videos and webpages about FEMA coffins being stored for a government takeover have been debunked. (as you saw above) Still many people trust this guy, and they do so simply because they don't know the real truth. Another amzing thing about Alex Jones' radio show is he allows anyone to call in that has information only based on rumors to be broadcasted as truth! When these people are asked for their names or sources they always refuse as if to protect themsleves. I personally caught Jones in a couple lies years ago wherein he predicted certain events by actual "dates" and when these days came and went without events occuring as he predcited, like many other false prophets online, he pulled the pages that predicted such events. Plus, when I posted questions on his website forum askign why certain things didn't occur as he predicted, my commenst were erased.

    Jones is being used by Rome just like the Jesuits were used when they came up with their false theories of a 7 year tribulation, Antichrist and the so called secret rapture to scare people back into the Catholic pews! Martin Luther's inspired work caused them much grief in Rome because the Word of God was shown to back up the Truth he preached about Rome! That ruth moved many out of Rome. So they used lies to scare them back just like Jones and others do today.

    By the way, there was a man that recorded all of Alex Jones' lies to tape back when he got his start during the so called "Y2K crisis." He used what he recorded to expose the man in such a way that angered Alex like never before. Is this why that man died in 2001? When Jesus returns those that killed him will be exposed before all mankind! So yes, we will all know soon enough. The man they killed was William Cooper. See some of his work exposing Jones here on YouTube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRxmiitlMbw&feature=related  

     

    A conspiracy against Alex Jones,  author of Prison Planet ?

  • 10-31-2009 6:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    KELLYBROWN9:

    Goldiec - I am not referring to your local Fox news broadcast.  The local Fox we have here also does a fine job of reporting the news. 

    I am referring to the cable FOX network and their Becks, Hannitys and other skit performers as well as radio comedians like Limbaugh. 

    Oh! I see I wasn't sure and I thought you were referring to our morning news show.
  • 10-31-2009 6:12 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    Barbara Jones:

    ALEX JONES EXPOSED

    blue-sep.jpg

     blue-sep.jpg

    This page is the end result of MANY emails I have received over the last 2 years or so about Alex Jones and "Infowars.com & prisonplanet.com." Alex Jones has been proven by many Christian researchers out there to be a Roman Catholic Jesuit Coadjutor. Whenever I get an email about Jones I send the following (below) to the person emailing me and more often than not they all agree Alex Jones is helping the Roman Catholic church create fear in the eyes of many to scare people back into their church. The molestation scandals, war crimes, and countless other documented criminal acts performed by the Vatican have caused their pews to empty much more lately.

    Alex Jones is a Jesuit Coadjutor. He preaches FEAR to keep the people clamoring to Roman churches and even their politicians for help. He also preaches the government is very evil to give people a false sense of security thinking "someone" is out there fighting for them. Big government can be evil, yes, however he is working hand in hand with the govt to "expose" them so the people will eventually say "Enough! We want RELIGIOUS politicians!" This is the only way they will be able to move the people into accepting the "so called" religious leaders. Especially those Sunday preachers with 501C3 that now have power to lobby laws. This fear and desire to "do the right thing" is needed if they are to be able to get religious laws like SUNDAY LAWS passed. Alex Jones is working directly with the Jesuits of Rome to generate massive fear in the people so they will look to their Jesuit controlled leaders for more laws to control them or "protect" them. Do some research and you will find that Alex Jones has made MANY predictions that never came true. He acts as if his sources are 100% accurate, but upwards of 70% are mere lies and rumors. He wields these lies to keep the people interested and for some reason no one seems to care when what he says will happen never does. The only thing he is good at is instilling FEAR in the hearts of the people. This is exactly what they need to do to keep the people controlled. PLUS, the perk to all this is, Satan knows he was able to use fear to get Peter to sink in the water. Those pushing the fear are the most fearful people out there. They fear our God and what He is able to do through His people, so they pump fear out there to try and get us to look at all their smoke and mirrors like Peter did the wind and waves. They know if they can get real Christians to fear, their prayers won't be as effective.

    This man is not a Christian, even though he says he is. James 1:26 bluntly says is a man cannot bridle his tongue his religion is vain! Every time someone tries to expose the Vatican on his radio show he gets VERY violent and protects it like it's his god, and he always uses 4 letter words true Christians would never use! Jesus clearly said in Matthew 7:20, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

    Is this a sane man? Do well balanced Christians act like this? Notice the following videos...

    Keep in mind, when I was originally emailed about Alex Jones I only scanned YouTube for about 10 mins to get this much information on him. Again, if any of you want your research on this man posted where loved ones that are being conned into trusting this guy can be warned, contact this ministry and after checking it out I will post it on this page

    I've known of this man for years. Judging by his skyrocketing popularity, it has become plain this guys rise to fame has been funded by big government under orders of Rome. Truth is, Jones got his start on January 1, 2000. He used the Y2K crisis to catapult himself. He did a broadcast when the date changed  from 12/31/1999 to 01/01/09 and scared the daylights out of millions! He was telling bold faced lies about planes falling from the sky, Nuclear power plants melting down, riots and anarchy in major cites, ICBM's launching nukes, etc. NONE of it was true of course, but that launched his career. Imagine that! He got his start by telling bold faced lies! Truth is, he is still lying to generate a following. His videos and webpages about FEMA coffins being stored for a government takeover have been debunked. (as you saw above) Still many people trust this guy, and they do so simply because they don't know the real truth. Another amzing thing about Alex Jones' radio show is he allows anyone to call in that has information only based on rumors to be broadcasted as truth! When these people are asked for their names or sources they always refuse as if to protect themsleves. I personally caught Jones in a couple lies years ago wherein he predicted certain events by actual "dates" and when these days came and went without events occuring as he predcited, like many other false prophets online, he pulled the pages that predicted such events. Plus, when I posted questions on his website forum askign why certain things didn't occur as he predicted, my commenst were erased.

    Jones is being used by Rome just like the Jesuits were used when they came up with their false theories of a 7 year tribulation, Antichrist and the so called secret rapture to scare people back into the Catholic pews! Martin Luther's inspired work caused them much grief in Rome because the Word of God was shown to back up the Truth he preached about Rome! That ruth moved many out of Rome. So they used lies to scare them back just like Jones and others do today.

    By the way, there was a man that recorded all of Alex Jones' lies to tape back when he got his start during the so called "Y2K crisis." He used what he recorded to expose the man in such a way that angered Alex like never before. Is this why that man died in 2001? When Jesus returns those that killed him will be exposed before all mankind! So yes, we will all know soon enough. The man they killed was William Cooper. See some of his work exposing Jones here on YouTube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRxmiitlMbw&feature=related  

     

    A conspiracy against Alex Jones,  author of Prison Planet ?

    I've never heard of Alex Jones before this post but thanks for sharing this.
  • 10-31-2009 6:14 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    Barbara Jones:

      Fox News lies again

     

    2009 June 25
    by Chris

    The lies of Fox News become more and more brazen, as more and more sheep blindly

     accept their faux reporting as fact.

    Today’s big lie? South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford, who recently admitted to an affair,

     is a Republican. Unless, of course, you watch Fox News, in which case Republicans can do

     no wrong and Mark Sanford is a Democrat. See for yourself.

     

    Just a thought Goldiec, but this might be something worth researching also, 

    consider it the conspiracy against Fox News.

    Lot's and lot's of these stories on the net,  one lie after another exposed.

    Of course this is on the cable stuff like Kellybrowns was talking about, but that some

     people do swear by. 
     

    Barb, I'm getting confused.  Are you talking about the local channel or on a different channel.
  • 10-31-2009 6:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    Barbara, who is Alex Jones? A relative? Haha (don't ban me for that). --------------- I had to look him up since I had never heard of him. Sounds like he's quite a winner. Here's a typical example of what I found:--------------------------- 9/11 conspiracy theorists are, unfortunately, a rather common breed, especially considering they come from all political ideologies. Websites like Prison Planet don’t help, especially when they bill themselves as reporting the truth. I’m rather fond of saying that truth requires proof. Half-assed theories aren’t proof. Of course, linking to things like this on the main page of the site doesn’t help when it comes to credibility. Anyways, who exactly is Alex Jones? He’s best known as a conspiracy theorist who runs a radio show and the aforementioned Prison Planet (I’m not giving that site the pleasure of a link). In fact, I’d say he’s one of the most vocal opponents of the official version of the events of 9/11. As for his political ideology, he’s a paleoconservative. Think Rush Limbaugh but worse. He’s so extreme it scares me to think people actually believe what he says. Now, I don’t mind conservatives, but when anyone, regardless of their political beliefs, willingly believes that the government of the United States launched missiles at its own buildings (including a government one, containing key members of the Defense Department), killed 2000 of its own civilians (2000 less people paying taxes), and yet was unable to whack the most vocal conspiracy theorists (such as the maker of Loose Change), I tend to think they’re a little crazy. What really got me this time was a Jones-led attack on a Wikipedia editor, Morton Devonshire, who allegedly deleted 9/11 Truth Movement related articles and basically covered up any “truth” Jones and his comrades put up on Wikipedia (the article is a couple months old, but it was brought up in a more recent Wikipedia discussion). Interestingly enough, Morton isn’t an administrator, which means he has no power to delete articles. He can propose and request deletion, but he doesn’t have the last say. The article Jones co-wrote is filled with juvenile attacks on Morton, including accusations of trolling and claims that his existence is “stunted and worthless,” among other ad hominem attacks. What a perfect way to show people you hold the superior moral ground… They also incorrectly quote Wikipedia policies (please note Alex, articles don’t necessarily need a discussion to be deleted; if they’re pure bullshit or nonsense, no discussion is needed). But what takes the cake is Jones’ encouragement of his readers to vandalize Morton’s user page. Justification of how crazy these truthers are? I think so. I find it interesting that anyone who disagrees with the conspiracy theorists is brainwashed, a neo-con, or too stupid/blind/Republican to accept the “facts.” Granted, most people (myself included) consider conspiracy theorists to be gullible nutcases who just want to believe that their government is actually capable of pulling off the worst terrorist attack in the United States with no one spilling the beans about it. Considering the type of “facts” these people generally come up with, it’s a wonder anyone actually believes them. For every bit of proof they come up with, a simpler and more reasonable explanation can be given. Remember Occam’s Razor, people. Take, for instance, the BBC reporting the collapse of WTC 7 before it actually collapsed. Conspiracy theorists say the BBC knew beforehand because the collapse was pre-planned. A more reasonable explanation is that the reporter got bad information. Someone thought the building collapsed and relayed the (false) information to the reporter. This happens all the time in news. Or how about how everyone pulled out of WTC 7 before it collapsed? Conspiracy theorists would tell you, again, that the collapse was pre-planned and that explosives were used. This is based on a radio message by Larry Silverstein, owner of the property, who said “We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it,” in regards to WTC 7. The conspiracy take is that Silverstein admitted to giving the go ahead to demolishing the building, since “pull” is industry jargon for demolishing a building. Why would Silverstein do this? Insurance fraud. Building goes down; he gets the money. However, a simpler explanation is that Silverstein was talking about pulling the fire department operation trying to extinguish the flames in the building. Silverstein was not a demolitions expert, so why would he use demolitions jargon? It’s reasonable to assume that he thought the building was a lost cause, so he would rather everyone get out of the building instead of them being caught inside when it eventually collapsed. A more in-depth explanation is available here. Ah, busting myths is fun. And rather easy once you get the hang of it. The problem is getting conspiracy theorists to listen to you. I’ve tried, and let me tell you, it’s not easy. As Alex Jones showed, dealing with critics is not a strong point of the 9/11 Truth Movement. Prove them wrong (or simply disbelieve them) and they just attack you, usually with completely false accusations. I’m not a neo-con. I’m not being paid by CENTCOM. Heck, I’ve even asked questions on 9/11 Truth forums (and got blasted for not blindly believing everything Loose Change said). Believe me, I’ve examined the evidence. And I think it justifies the official account. If you think that’s wrong, prove to me that Popular Mechanics and National Geographic (among other groups) are being bribed by the government to support their version of events. Show me how the NIST’s scientific data is wrong. Theories are easy to formulate. Proof is simple to fabricate. But solid, incontrovertible proof…now that’s harder to come by, isn’t it? I guess I just need to remember that there will always be people who simply want to believe that there is always some evil New World Order behind everything that happens.
  • 10-31-2009 6:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    KELLYBROWN9:
    Barbara, who is Alex Jones? A relative? Haha (don't ban me for that). --------------- I had to look him up since I had never heard of him. Sounds like he's quite a winner. Here's a typical example of what I found:--------------------------- 9/11 conspiracy theorists are, unfortunately, a rather common breed, especially considering they come from all political ideologies. Websites like Prison Planet don’t help, especially when they bill themselves as reporting the truth. I’m rather fond of saying that truth requires proof. Half-assed theories aren’t proof. Of course, linking to things like this on the main page of the site doesn’t help when it comes to credibility. Anyways, who exactly is Alex Jones? He’s best known as a conspiracy theorist who runs a radio show and the aforementioned Prison Planet (I’m not giving that site the pleasure of a link). In fact, I’d say he’s one of the most vocal opponents of the official version of the events of 9/11. As for his political ideology, he’s a paleoconservative. Think Rush Limbaugh but worse. He’s so extreme it scares me to think people actually believe what he says. Now, I don’t mind conservatives, but when anyone, regardless of their political beliefs, willingly believes that the government of the United States launched missiles at its own buildings (including a government one, containing key members of the Defense Department), killed 2000 of its own civilians (2000 less people paying taxes), and yet was unable to whack the most vocal conspiracy theorists (such as the maker of Loose Change), I tend to think they’re a little crazy. What really got me this time was a Jones-led attack on a Wikipedia editor, Morton Devonshire, who allegedly deleted 9/11 Truth Movement related articles and basically covered up any “truth” Jones and his comrades put up on Wikipedia (the article is a couple months old, but it was brought up in a more recent Wikipedia discussion). Interestingly enough, Morton isn’t an administrator, which means he has no power to delete articles. He can propose and request deletion, but he doesn’t have the last say. The article Jones co-wrote is filled with juvenile attacks on Morton, including accusations of trolling and claims that his existence is “stunted and worthless,” among other ad hominem attacks. What a perfect way to show people you hold the superior moral ground… They also incorrectly quote Wikipedia policies (please note Alex, articles don’t necessarily need a discussion to be deleted; if they’re pure bullshit or nonsense, no discussion is needed). But what takes the cake is Jones’ encouragement of his readers to vandalize Morton’s user page. Justification of how crazy these truthers are? I think so. I find it interesting that anyone who disagrees with the conspiracy theorists is brainwashed, a neo-con, or too stupid/blind/Republican to accept the “facts.” Granted, most people (myself included) consider conspiracy theorists to be gullible nutcases who just want to believe that their government is actually capable of pulling off the worst terrorist attack in the United States with no one spilling the beans about it. Considering the type of “facts” these people generally come up with, it’s a wonder anyone actually believes them. For every bit of proof they come up with, a simpler and more reasonable explanation can be given. Remember Occam’s Razor, people. Take, for instance, the BBC reporting the collapse of WTC 7 before it actually collapsed. Conspiracy theorists say the BBC knew beforehand because the collapse was pre-planned. A more reasonable explanation is that the reporter got bad information. Someone thought the building collapsed and relayed the (false) information to the reporter. This happens all the time in news. Or how about how everyone pulled out of WTC 7 before it collapsed? Conspiracy theorists would tell you, again, that the collapse was pre-planned and that explosives were used. This is based on a radio message by Larry Silverstein, owner of the property, who said “We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it,” in regards to WTC 7. The conspiracy take is that Silverstein admitted to giving the go ahead to demolishing the building, since “pull” is industry jargon for demolishing a building. Why would Silverstein do this? Insurance fraud. Building goes down; he gets the money. However, a simpler explanation is that Silverstein was talking about pulling the fire department operation trying to extinguish the flames in the building. Silverstein was not a demolitions expert, so why would he use demolitions jargon? It’s reasonable to assume that he thought the building was a lost cause, so he would rather everyone get out of the building instead of them being caught inside when it eventually collapsed. A more in-depth explanation is available here. Ah, busting myths is fun. And rather easy once you get the hang of it. The problem is getting conspiracy theorists to listen to you. I’ve tried, and let me tell you, it’s not easy. As Alex Jones showed, dealing with critics is not a strong point of the 9/11 Truth Movement. Prove them wrong (or simply disbelieve them) and they just attack you, usually with completely false accusations. I’m not a neo-con. I’m not being paid by CENTCOM. Heck, I’ve even asked questions on 9/11 Truth forums (and got blasted for not blindly believing everything Loose Change said). Believe me, I’ve examined the evidence. And I think it justifies the official account. If you think that’s wrong, prove to me that Popular Mechanics and National Geographic (among other groups) are being bribed by the government to support their version of events. Show me how the NIST’s scientific data is wrong. Theories are easy to formulate. Proof is simple to fabricate. But solid, incontrovertible proof…now that’s harder to come by, isn’t it? I guess I just need to remember that there will always be people who simply want to believe that there is always some evil New World Order behind everything that happens.

     

    Kellybrown9, I had to smile when I read your post.  Somehow referring to Conspiracey Theorists as gullible nutcases just doesn't seem fair to me.  Now I know nothing in life is fair but since I lean toward conspiracey theories I would not consider myself as a gullible nutcase.  I'm about as down to earth as you can get but I do like to keep an open mind.  I think the worst thing we can do is have a closed mind.  I like to research different theories because you just don't know when we may stumble across something very important. 

  • 10-31-2009 6:33 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

    Research is wonderful Goldiec.  Just keep in mind the sources that you use for your research.  Because you see it in writing (especially off-beat internet sites) and on cable shows does not make it real.  Good luck,  Smile

  • 10-31-2009 8:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Another Child Given Swine Flu Vaccine Without Consent

     Goldiec I was talking about cable news like Kellybrowns was talking about.

    As for Alex Jones,  he is the author of Prison Planet. 

    Just another angle on researching conspiracies, by researching conspiracies against the conspirators. LOL

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