NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

Last post 08-15-2008 9:25 PM by Seti03. 15 replies.
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  • 07-15-2008 10:57 PM

    NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    Hey everyone,

    I'm sure everyone here is tired of hearing about the budget deficit and how much the war is costing us. I have what some might consider a perhaps radical idea as to how the War could be funded, and the budget deficit could be paid down. LIke I said this could be considered outside the box thinking. Maybe it's time for our politicians to try and do that.

     Here is the idea, we all know that there is a drug problem in this country, and to go along with that there is also a proportional amount of drug related, or property related crimes. This is in part because of what I feel is drugs that are illegal in this country which makes the price too high on them to afford.This unaffordablity usually leads the addicted person to resort to stealing property money or whatever to support their habit. 

     Here is an interesting stat I pulled off http://www.apcto.org/pdf/May 2007.pdf  . You are probably going to have to copy and paste this web address in your browser. The article reads in part as below.

    New statistics on drug offenses -- According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics,


    the number of inmates serving time in state prisons for drug offenses rose by 57,000 from
    1997 to 2004, but drug offenders maintained the same percentage (21%) of the prison
    population during the period. Federal prisoners serving time for drug offenses during the
    same period declined from 63% to 55%.


    The same report provided the following statistics:


    1 in 4 violent offenders in prison committed their offense under the influence of
    drugs
    1 in 3 property offenders reported that drug money was their motivation
    Half of drug dependent inmates in State prisons reported three or more prior
    sentences
    Participation in drug abuse programs in both state and federal prisons is rising.

    So although Federal Drug offenses have decreased. the individual stated numbers of drug crimes rose from 1999 to 2004. These are the latest stats I seemed to be able to find. So the individual states to house the increase in populations are building more prisons which are in part funded by an already strained federal budget. It's only a matter of time before state problems flows over into becomming a federal problem. My proposal is to have our Federal Goverment legalize all drugs and place there distribution under the FDA in a drug clearing house where they can be bought at a reduced price, but probably a higher taxed price, for consumption. A person would also have to be 21 yrs old to purchase said drugs, or have parental consent. They would also have to attend drug awareness classes at their own expense and provide proof they did attend the classes and are aware of the risks of drugs. Also with the drugs under the FDA this would more than likely help ensure the safety. The revenue made from the drug clearing house could then be divided equally to pay down the deficit and fund the war effort. These both would would help lessen the strain on the national budget and help slow the defecit growth. Also since an addict would be able to legally get their drug of choice at a more affordable cost, they would be less inclined to resort to theft/property crimes to support the habit. This would most likely result in a drop in drug related inmates in prison. I have more on this but this is the main points on this idea.

     

    I WELCOME ANY AND ALL IDEAS/COMMENTS THOUGHTS ON THIS IDEA, AND OR ANY OTHER IDEAS YOU MIGHT HAVE TO HELP FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE THE DEFICIT. WE ALL KNOW THE TROOPS AREN'T COMING HOME ANYTIME SOON. WE NEED TO SUPPORT THEM AND NOT B**CH ABOUT THEN BEING OVER THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE NEED TO THANK THEM BECAUSE WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO OPENLY CRITICIZE OUR GOVERNMENT W/O RISKING BEING BEATEN OR JAILED OR WORSE FOR IT!! ALSO YOU MORE THAN WELCOME TO GO TO ONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES AND THEN TRY TO CRITICIZE THE GOVERMENT. IT MIGHT NOT BE PERFECT, BUT OUR GOV'T IS BETTER THAN MANY OUT THERE IN THE WORLD.

    AGAIN ANY AND ALL COMMENTS/IDEAS/SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME IN THIS FORUM POSTING

  • 07-15-2008 11:37 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    I was just about to sign off till i saw your post here jaydub1984. I don't think we want to legalize or even decriminalize drugs like  C-Meth or heroin. But when it comes to Cannibus or even powerdered cocaine. The first thing that would happen rather quickly will be the disappearance of both the Mexican and Colombian drug cartels. The Hemp part should be tottaly legalized. Not only for some very simple reasons. But Hemp can also be used for a variety of purposes including Industrial ones.

    Yes, once legalized we would be able to resolve several  problems at once almost. The most important being the control of the quality and potency of these drugs and sold either with a prescription in the case of cocaine. and in the free market with, dare i say it. Marijuana. (did i spell that right.)

    This is an issue i could discuss all week. But, this sums it up for me. Europe has no DEA or Drug Cartels to deal with. Their violent crime rates compared to ours is miniscule at best. And they don't put their foorteen,  fifteen and sixteen year olds in prison for smoking pot. Tens of thousands die every year from alcohol related illnesses and overdose. There is not one case in the annals of our history of any marijuana related overdose deaths. Not one. Well if there is I have'nt been able to find it.

     

    Carpe diem.!!

  • 07-16-2008 12:10 AM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    Yeh !

  • 07-19-2008 6:19 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    There may not be any deaths directly related to marijuana use, but while people deny that it can lead to more drug usage... it does.  But let's look a bit harder at that statement:  I believe that the major reason it may lead to more drug usage is the fact that many people think that since it doesn't affect them (define "affect"), that the government is lying about the effects of other drugs.

    So, I agree ... legalizing marijuana should help decrease drug-related crimes.  It should be controlled, but it should not be banned as it is now.

    I have seen the effects of cocaine, so cannot believe that it would be a good idea to legalize or decriminalize it.  Something about nursing a young man through an overdose of cocaine when I was 21 was enough to convince me that it is nasty stuff.  But Cannibus, even with the new "stronger" versions, has some industrial benefits (like rope) that are not seen with cocaine.

    imho...

     

  • 07-19-2008 11:39 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    We mostly agree, Melaney. And I'm open to discussion on the Cocaine decriminalization issue. However this Marijuana isuue is a red-herring perputrated by past government and business interests. (BUD, Miller, etc..) And now with the Privitized Prisons for Profit industry (The PPP) its no wonder that all these "Poor" kids and people are nothing more than an expendable commodity. I highlight the word poor because, and I know first hand, that from the mostly middle class to the Gated community priviledged, they are left alone for the most part by the PPP police. (oh, no, i'm starting to sound like Magoo) They know better than to start arresting our college bound kids and contributing taxpaying professionals in any large numbers. So, they usually pile on, on the voiceless and people who can't afford a decent lawyer. Enough of this!

     Here's some startling info. 

    Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.

    The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You'll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.

    You'll also see that the history of marijuana's criminalization is filled with:

    • Racism
    • Fear
    • Protection of Corporate Profits
    • Yellow Journalism
    • Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
    • Personal Career Advancement and Greed

    These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal.

    For most of human history, marijuana has been completely legal. It's not a recently discovered plant, nor is it a long-standing law. Marijuana has been illegal for less than 1% of the time that it's been in use. Its known uses go back further than 7,000 B.C. and it was legal as recently as when Ronald Reagan was a boy.

    The marijuana (hemp) plant, of course, has an incredible number of uses. The earliest known woven fabric was apparently made of hemp, and over the centuries the plant was used for food, incense, cloth, rope, and much more.

    The Mexican Connection

    In the early 1900s, the western states developed significant tensions regarding the influx of Mexican-Americans. The revolution in Mexico in 1910 spilled over the border, with General Pershing's army clashing with bandit Pancho Villa. Later in that decade, bad feelings developed between the small farmer and the large farms that used cheaper Mexican labor. Then, the depression came and increased tensions, as jobs and welfare resources became scarce.

    One of the "differences" seized upon during this time was the fact that many Mexicans smoked marijuana and had brought the plant with them. So, when jobs became scarce during this period, an easy way the government found to deport the excess cheap laborers "mexicans" was to criminilize the Pot and arrest the mexicans for deportation. 

    However, the first state law outlawing marijuana did so not because of Mexicans using the drug. Oddly enough, it was because of Mormons using it. Mormons who traveled to Mexico in 1910 came back to Salt Lake City with marijuana. The church was not pleased and ruled against use of the drug. Since the state of Utah automatically enshrined church doctrine into law, the first state marijuana prohibition was established in 1915. (Today, Senator Orrin Hatch serves as the prohibition arm of this heavily church-influenced state.)

    Jazz and Assassins

    In the eastern states, the "problem" was attributed to a combination of Latin Americans and black jazz musicians. Marijuana and jazz traveled from New Orleans to Chicago, and then to Harlem, where marijuana became an indispensable part of the music scene, even entering the language of the black hits of the time (Louis Armstrong's "Muggles", Cab Calloway's "That Funny Reefer Man", Fats Waller's "Viper's Drag").

    Again, racism was part of the charge against marijuana, as newspapers in 1934 editorialized: "Marihuana influences Negroes to look at white people in the eye, step on white men's shadows and look at a white woman twice." 

    The above is all documented and can be found in hundreds of legal documents throughout this period. Just use your search engine.

    I could go on, but all this Reefer madness talk has made me hungry.

    Carpe Diem.!!

  • 07-20-2008 4:49 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    re

  • 08-05-2008 9:22 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    Thanks for the info.

  • 08-05-2008 9:40 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    tell us your really alive.

     

    helen879:

    Thanks for the info.

     

  • 08-10-2008 12:20 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

     I dont know where you got your numbers for your post.. These numbers are from the Bureu of Justice.. revised 2007. It didnt seem to copy and paste in the format is was originally.. here is the link to it...

     www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/dudsfp04.pdf

    Table 1. Drug use by State prisoners, 1997 and 2004

    Percent of State prisoners who used drugs —

    Ever Regularly
    a In the month before offense At the time of offense

    Type of drug 2004 1997 2004 1997 2004 1997 2004 1997

    Any drug/
    b 83.2% 83.0% 69.2% 69.6% 56.0% 56.5% 32.1% 32.6%

    Marijuana/hashish 77.6 77.0 59.0 58.3 40.3 39.2 15.4 15.1

    Cocaine/crack 46.8 49.2 30.0 33.6 21.4 25.0 11.8 14.8

    Heroin/opiates 23.4 24.5 13.1 15.0 8.2 9.2 4.4 5.6

    Depressants
    c 21.3 23.7 9.9 11.3 5.4 5.1 2.0 1.8Stimulantsd 28.6 28.3 17.9 16.3 12.2 9.0 6.7 4.2

    Methamphetamine 23.5 19.4 14.9 11.2 10.8 6.9 6.1 3.5

    Hallucinogens
    e 32.9 28.7 13.3 11.3 5.9 4.0 2.0 1.8

    Inhalants 13.6 14.4 4.5 5.4 1.0 1.0 -- --

    Note: Detail adds to more than total because prisoners may have used more than one type of drug.

    and Federal prisons

    Table 2. Drug use by Federal prisoners, 1997 and 2004

    Percent of Federal prisoners who used drugs —

    Ever Regularly
    a In the month before offense At the time of offense

    Type of drug 2004 1997 2004 1997 2004 1997 2004 1997

    Any drug
    b 78.7% 72.9% 64.3% 57.3% 50.2% 44.8% 26.4% 22.4%

    Marijuana/hashish 71.2 65.2 53.0 46.6 36.2 30.4 14.0 10.8

    Cocaine/crack 43.3 44.8 27.5 28.2 18.0 20.0 7.4 9.3

    Heroin/opiates 17.9 16.1 9.2 8.9 5.8 5.4 3.2 3.0

    Depressants
    c 16.9 16.5 8.6 8.0 4.4 3.2 1.4 1.0Stimulantsd 21.0 20.9 14.8 12.9 10.8 7.6 7.4 4.1

    Methamphetamine 17.9 15.1 12.8 9.6 10.1 6.5 7.2 3.7

    Hallucinogens
    e 25.9 19.0 11.9 6.4 5.8 1.7 1.9 0.8

    Inhalants 7.5 7.7 3.0 2.6 0.8 0.5 -- --

    Drug use has NOT gone down.. It has increased.. and for those incarcerated it isnt a small percentage and it is disproportionate to race. I am a drug counselor by trade.. The numbers are staggering and with the rise in useage of "ice" the newest form of meth.. It is taking people out faster and harder than ever before. I am a recovering addict who by no means thinks this stuff should be legal.  If you give the me the speech of "It's all about choice" let me take you to the streets where I work. Do you think these people lying under the bridges.. living in cardboard boxes strung out.. sick because they cant hit a lick and get their next bump WANT to be there? By no means is that 100% true. yes there are some who choose to be there.. for each one of those there are hundreds that would give it all to be able to change.

     

    I for one.. didnt really know there was another way to live without getting high. I finally came to the point where I was sick and tired ENOUGH.. to be desperate ENOUGH.. to do whatever it took to get clean. legalizing these types of drugs would be immoral for our country. The hardest part of keeping clients clean.. is they tend to relaps on alcohol first. Even though it might not have been their drug of choice.. once they get the feeling of the alcohol.. they go back seeking what they really want.

    Marijuana is the most commonly used drug.. because it is considered a "safe" high.. Just like cocaine in the 80's.. diet pills in the 70's and acid in the 60's. it is a gateway drug that for addicts..can and will lead them into other drugs.

    Just my opinion. 

    Carpe Nocturn!!

  • 08-15-2008 11:47 AM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    Lorelie, I don't know what numbers you were looking at, but drug use has stayed basically the same since 1997, at least, that is what the numbers you supplied said. Also, It was not race disproportionate, in fact, whites had the highest percent of offenders who were high at the time. If you read the first sentence instead of just the numbers, you will see where it says drug use remained stable over time. It is not getting worse, it is staying the same.

  • 08-15-2008 1:05 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    Marijuana is not a gateway to anything. That is just another catch-all phrase like, "just say no."  Having said that, I mostly agree. Hard narcotics in reality takes away peoples freedom and a lot of times hand-cuffs them to an early death.

    Carpe Diem.!! 

  • 08-15-2008 1:29 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    actually, alcohol is the gateway drug.

  • 08-15-2008 5:40 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    You may have a point there Morelli. It does make people less inhibited, when they drink that is. More willing to take risks. But, I still say there is no such thing as a gateway drug.

     

    Morelli:

    actually, alcohol is the gateway drug.

     

  • 08-15-2008 5:44 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    Happy Anniversary Seti!!!!

  • 08-15-2008 5:49 PM In reply to

    Re: NOVEL IDEA TO FUND THE WAR AND REDUCE OUR DEFICIT

    Seti03:

    You may have a point there Morelli. It does make people less inhibited, when they drink that is. More willing to take risks. But, I still say there is no such thing as a gateway drug.

     

    Morelli:

    actually, alcohol is the gateway drug.

    I would have to agree about the alcohol with adults.. from being around the treatment faci;lities in Texas.. and working first with adolescents.. (13 to 17).. They seem to have a lot of the same path.. marijuana... if they could have stayed with that.. ehh..  but they traveled on the meth.. alcohol.. crack.. heroin/cheese.. and seemingly disproportinately.. they turned to mom and dads medicine cabinet.. Vicodin.. Oxycontin.. or the old standby.. Robotussin...Ever hearf of "Robo Trippin?" triple c's? ask your kids.. talk to them about it.. "Skittles" isnt about tasting the rainbow anymore...

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